hydrovane vs windpilot

So thanks a million it’s the best money I ever spent. At least three of the manufacturers offer an emergency rudder installation (Monitor, Windpilot and Hydrovane) that is either part of the existing gear, or an add-on. Having had this close encounter with the business, I was very interested to see how Hydrovane would develop over the years to come. Yes, possible. The steering wheel was blocked and we could no longer steer. At the end I am happy I did install the Hydrovane, especially that I saw on YouTube that at the same time 2 sailboats almost the same size as mine with the same problem. At 1100nm from Martinique during the night with 30/35 knots of wind and 3 to 5 meters waves we heard 2 big noises like something hitting the boat on the side and almost immediately the autopilot stopped working and the boat went beam to the waves. rudder while the HydroVane relies strictly on wind force to steer. The smaller two had self steering but the larger boat depended on its autopilot. Focusing on the importance of having an emergency rudder – an emergency rudder ready and waiting in the form of the Hydrovane auxiliary rudder – presumably seemed like an attractive strategy given the shift towards fin keels and spade/balanced rudders. I even got her working when we did some motor sailing. Of course, the Achilles heel of electronic autopilots is the inevitability of break-downs. Recovering marketing costs in a niche market poses a particular challenge because relatively few sales in a year means a relatively large share of the costs has to be borne by each buyer. Max erklärt, wie unsere "WindGear by Joern Heinrich" - Windsteueranlage funktioniert und welche Fehler uns anfänglich passiert sind. My PACIFIC systems were at that time complicated stainless steel constructions that deepened the hole in my accounts with every sale. I have never regretted it though because it laid the foundations for my current system family. This blade swishes from side to side in the water, like a pendulum, directed by its windvane sensor. Sometimes there will be an easy solution to the conflict, but physics (and indeed common sense) can quickly make a nonsense of what seems like handy convenience. With the advent of autopilots, it was felt that the demise of the older mechanical self steering systems was only a matter of time. I hope I have provided some food for thought here and will leave it to you, the reader, to draw your own conclusions. In 1986 Windpilot introduced their version (Pacific Plus). Originally horizontal or H vanes pivoted about a strictly horizontal axis, but almost all now have the axis of rotation angled 20 degrees back from horizontal. The Hebridean self-steering wind vane is a new design concept, good for DIY sailors £410. Three boats left Fiji together, a 35, 45 and 55 footer, all headed to New Zealand. The use of Windpilot systems on catamarans is described in detail here: https://windpilot.com/blog/en/tec-news/windpilot-news/catamarans/. 2. This necessitates being able to adjust the main rudder precisely as required and then lock it in place reliably to minimise the workload for the auxiliary rudder. It replaced a much older servo pendulum gear and is just amazing in the band of wind and sea conditions it covers. So we put down the sails, started the motor and used the Hydrovane to steer! When the day came I reestablished the sails and we finished the trip with the Hydrovane without any problems. The GGR organisers know that and so do their sailors, most – if not all – of whom will be needing to buy equipment that can be had from only a few sources. Compact and lightweight, simple to make and robust. Even if the autopilot itself never fails, failures of many other devices can stop the flow of electricity and, in turn, render an autopilot useless. Recent Posts. However, the Hydrovane has been used on at least two SeaStream 43’s with great success and has the benefit of acting as an emergency rudder. Prior to purchasing the Hydrovane we had been using a popular brand pendulum system with fine results. Tenho um Dufur 31 e gostava de instalar um windpilot, que topo-me aconselham e preço, com envio para Portugal. Hydrovane Principle. It has been more than 15 years since I decided not to buy Hydrovane, so why have I decided to write this just now? Similar systems have been produced for years by perhaps a dozen other companies. As of recently, Aries units are built in Holland. Additional cost. The Hydrovane is an auxiliary rudder system (has it’s own rudder) that is powered by wind on its large vane. Windpilot is made out of aluminium and has a very simple and in our eyes pretty briljant mounting construction. Yes, Rudder is part of the unit and is in place and ‘Ready to Go’. Autopilots for bigger yachts are mainly electric or electric/hydraulic and steer a set compass course. Manual steering day after day can be a punishing routine, especially if it comes as a surprise: if the self-steering solution chosen before the trip turns out not to live up to its manufacturer’s assurances and the boat fails to hold a course as a result, steering by hand becomes the only option – with obvious disruptive consequences for life aboard. In this case two of the problem vanes, belonging to Cousot and Kopar, were Windpilot units, one was a Beaufort unit, belonging to Nabil Amra (who quit the race), and the fourth was a Hydrovane unit, belonging to Kevin Farebrother (who also quit the race). Love someone who does his homework. For information, I already had and sailed different type of wind pilots for long distances that worked very fine (Hydrovane, Atoms and Windpilot) The product that was delivered was NOT in working order. USE WITH HYDRAULIC STEERING This is when mechanical self-steering proves to be indispensable – it requires no power and the windier it gets the better it steers. See here, for example: Once or twice these “creative differences” have blown up into much more serious affairs and in 1998, for example, I found myself fighting for survival in the High Court in London. The best course for a boat under sail is to hold an angle fixed to the wind. A servo system actually only pulls a line by about 10 in (25 cm), which is about enough to move the ships wheel a half a turn in each direction. D - High pressure air passes into the primary oil separator. The auxiliary rudder is designed to be balanced so that even the limited force supplied by the windvane can move the rudder against the pressure of the water. The vane has been totally maintenance free and is exceptionally easy to engage/disengage. An energy neutral boat provides much piece of mind, if you can achieve it. Well the cost is big (double or up to quadruple conventional systems), reliability issues persist, and the power needs are such a tyranny. USEFUL CONTACTS. We arrived after 27 days with no problems and not having to wait for spare parts to be shipped in. This is not just because the auxiliary rudder is smaller than the main rudder, but also because the loss of the main rudder impacts unfavourably on the centre of lateral resistance. First of all, the choice of self-steering gear depends on your type of boat. In all these cases, the power of the wind (which is quite weak) mechanically adjusts the gear so that it harnesses the power of the water (which is immense) to steer the boat. Windpilot stopped selling simple auxiliary rudder systems in 1984, after which Derek Daniels – one of my fellow operators in the windvane steering business – and his Hydrovane system had this particular segment of the market (auxiliary rudder with no servo component) to themselves for many years. Your email address will not be published. No ability to adjust responsiveness – except tiller steered, Course Control – Sensitivity and Power, 1. The self steering systems allowed those boats to hug the wind, always keeping their sails trimmed – optimizing both their sail trim and course. It didn’t take long though for 33 feet to begin looking decidedly average – and designs were growing significantly wider as well as longer. This movement pulls the connecting line to turn the wheel or tiller so the main rudder moves to bring the boat back on course. Request a Quote. The Hydrovane proved to be so far superior on all points of sailing that it was as if it had been made specifically for the Tradewind 35. So, a company pays an amount of money (sponsorship!) The windvane supplies the steering signal to activate the servo-pendulum unit, which in turn generates the force necessary to operate the auxiliary rudder. It was this realisation that eventually persuaded me to put my knowledge of the science of bluewater cruising down on paper. The boat knows when it is holding course.  And more readily returns to that ‘on course’ position when the Hydrovane is making course adjustments. The crew had to abandon the the ships and left both boats in the middle of the Atlantic and lost everything. Small though it may be in terms of surface area, the pendulum rudder blade sits at the end of such a long lever (and consequently generates so much force) that the system can capably manage boats as long as 60 feet (and the large main rudder that goes with them). The wind itself does not provide the power for the steering; rather it adjusts the angle of the paddle, relying on the hydro-mechanic… All of us in the mechanical self-steering game have an answer to that! Well done Hydrovane. My thoughts on the matter can be found here: Let me make it clear, before I go any further, that the boats entered for the GGR are undoubtedly all suitable in terms of size and design for use with the Hydrovane systems. Simple: it has taken time and a lot of back-and-forth with knowledgeable sailors for me to feel confident that my early suspicions have some merit. We have sailed with mechanical self steering systems since 1987 and have accumulated in excess of 42,000 sea miles exclusively using vane steering. After three years and 10,000 sea miles of Hydrovane steering, we are absolutely delighted. If it cannot hold a straight course in these circumstances, the brochure continues, the steering cylinders must not be properly sealed. Sailing With a Windvane. The biggest differences between the two we could find where the type of material used and the the mounting system. The [popular servo system] is in my opinion a state of the art servo pendulum but the choice is a matter of whether one wishes to drag a plank through the water attached to your helm or have another rudder. Servo-pendulum systems are capable of producing huge steering forces, which makes double rudder systems very powerful. Several cruising event organisers have recently decided to add an emergency rudder to their mandatory equipment list. Windvane have made the history of single-handed offshore sailing, electric pilots have evolved and are now the only system on racing boats The Hydrovane is the only brand that can adjust its’ sensitivity and the amount of power applied to control the timing and amount of steerage to course changes. Entitled ‘Hydrovane: one solution, all you need,’ the guide considers how different compressor technologies can impact the cost of ownership, and how choosing the right model can help businesses to ensure a reliable, efficient, cost-effective and high-quality supply of air. A servo pendulum system pulls a line that moves the steering wheel or tiller enough to move the boat’s main rudder to bring the boat back on course. My initial correspondence with the brand’s new owner, John Curry, gave cause for optimism, although it soon became apparent that plans for the basic product design extended to nothing more than a few tweaks here and there and that the product would continue to be manufactured by the safe hands of the long-time supplier/manufacturer in England. OFF-CENTRE INSTALLATION When you take away the autopilot’s voracious need for power, especially when the going gets tough, a large responsibility is removed, replaced by a quiet confidence in the boat’s systems. www.selfsteer.com – Scanmar for Monitor, Autohelm and Saye’s Rig www.windpilot.com – Windpilot www.sea-feather.co.uk – Seafeather www.hydrovane.com – Hydrovane www.mactrashop.co.uk – Aries www.windvaneselfsteering.com – Mistervee www.selfsteering.com – … The main brands still produced today are Aries, Cape Horn, Monitor, Sailomat, South Pacific and Wind Pilot. We have sailed with mechanical self steering systems since 1987 and have accumulated in excess of 42,000 sea miles exclusively using vane steering. An emergency rudder is no use at all until you need it, but if you are unfortunate enough to end up needing it, it is absolutely essential. This Windpilot auxiliary rudder The Hydrovane auxiliary rudder system is suitable for boats up to system: the H vane generates 11 m/36ft in length. assumed – for decades, no less – that everyone in the bluewater community would have a pretty reliable grasp of basic physics, completely overlooking the fact that while many sailors (many people in all walks of life) are indeed familiar with the main principles, plenty of others don’t have a clue. The monitor still steers through the boat's primary steering gear with the associated wear and tear and all those lines in the cockpit. Derek actually offered me the chance to buy Hydrovane in 2001 when he decided it was time for him to retire. ‘James’ came through like a champ. When I realised that my ATLANTIK range was failing to keep pace with changing customer requirements, the logical response as I saw it was to change the product. Windy has proven itself responsive in light wind on all points of sail, and equally effective when steering through high winds and heavy seas. Therefore it should not be mounted off-center! Nothing makes a boat more stable than a fixed main rudder. 5 Windpilot 2 working fine ..one ok, after a week of frustration and two not OK. 3 Beaufort with 2 working fine and one destroyed. If you can have both, that’s an ideal set up. EMERGENCY RUDDER FUNCTION This means that the boat’s course meanders with the wind. One of the drawbacks of marketing (a drawback it shares with exhibiting at boat shows and providing sponsorship), however, is that it has to be paid for – and ultimately the only source of new money are customers. Effective steering Adjustable Vane Axis – Adjust sensitivity and responsiveness of vane, In your opinion, what’s the best choice, the Windpilot or the Hydrovane? TAPIO………………WINDPILOT………NEW………….OK.. after a week settling in; UKU…………………HYDROVANE…….NEW………….OK; 6 Hydrovane all working fine! She got us thru it all with minimal hand steering. Those are hydraulic systems with multiple boat and wind sensors that are fed to a computer that analyzes the data. Derek Daniels understood all of this of course and told me that he suspected the advantages of my servo-assisted Pacific Plus auxiliary rudder were partially to blame for Hydrovane’s declining market share. THE LIMITS OF SERVO-PENDULUM-SYSTEMS The power consumption of an electronic autopilot in big seas compounded over days is astronomical. 2 ARIES both working fine. websites for windvanes: www.windpilot.com www.hydrovane.com www.selfsteer.com ww.ariesvanegear.com. Brooks & Gatehouse now has such and perhaps Raymarine is competitive. I’ve had experience with [3 other types of windvane, including 2 servo-auxiliary models] and I can honestly say that the hydrovane has performed much better than any of the others so far. The market was obviously trying to tell me something, so I decided to bite the bullet and start again. Hydrovane’s German brochure cautions potential customers that designers do not approve of mounting windvane steering systems on platforms or dropdowns and that doing so can invalidate parts of the boat’s warranty. I thanked Derek for his offer but decided to leave Hydrovane alone. A servo-pendulum system can apply forces in the 150-200 kg range through the steering lines, which is obviously very much more than most human helms could manage (especially hour after hour, day after day). As the boat falls off course the wind angle changes and the vane is pushed over. No linkage to wheel/tiller, More complex structure on transom linked to wheel/tiller by system of lines and blocks, or a direct connection to quadrant, Yes. Because of their self steering. V vane only, on board a 5m/16ft Van de H vane only, QME windvane. When sailing offshore, the only time we use the electric autopilot is during a sail change. Very good feedback. It is possible to steer a disabled yacht downwind by trailing one or more drogues deployed astern or biased onto a quarter. Eventually the case against me was thrown out, but the proceedings forced me to re-evaluate everything about my dealings with the press and the media and with the other businesses sharing my sector. Cons: The hydrovane is heavier with that additional weight out there on the end of the boat. Some people look at the Windpilot range and conclude that the PACIFIC PLUS must be the PACIFIC’s big sister, but nothing could be further from the truth: the PACIFIC can handle much bigger and heavier boats than an auxiliary rudder system, whose application is necessarily limited by the size of the auxiliary rudder (and the aforementioned need to ensure that it is roughly one third of the size of the main rudder). Locking pin popped out with boat hook or by hand if reachable, There is no rudder, but servo blade can usually be swung up, Improved – the main rudder fixed provides greatest stability and yaw dampening. I shouldn’t be surprised about that really, as interesting experiences have a habit of finding their way to me. The manufacturer, for its part, can put together an impressive library of photos showing boats that it has successfully equipped. Too much canvas aloft means weather helm and more work for the rudder: it’s like sailing with the brakes on and makes no more sense under self-steering than it does with a human hand at the controls. A self steering windvane steers to the apparent wind and is therefore always in sync with sail trim. The vertical or V vane pivots about a vertical axis. It is also worth bearing in mind that the performance of auxiliary rudder systems tails off gradually as boat size increases and that the upper limits of their effectiveness can be extended with careful trim, pre-emptive reefing and – needless to say – an easily steered form below the waterline (a long keel, in other words). WINDPILOT – PROPERLY EFFECTIVE WINDVANE STEERING SYSTEMS. 2. Our hydrovane ‘Scarlet’ has been a complete star the last 18 months. However, most of the other auxiliary rudder style systems on the market are servo-driven – meaning they still employ a servo blade and derive their power from the movement of the water. The WindPilot Pacific Plus uses a pendulum servo vane to provide the muscle to turn the aux. Once on course the vane flops back to vertical/neutral and the servo blade reverts to trailing in the wake. One boat turned back to PV and the other hand steered all the way to Hiva Oa. However, if the passage is longer than a few hours, the Hydrovane will be steering. One of my systems would have suited perfectly, although Bobby used an Aries in those days. Windy's self steering gear will make your sailing experience more enjoyable. “Lucy” is truly an amazing device, reliable and strongly built which afforded the crew a lot of comfort: knowing that also at night we did not have to worry about an accidental jibe, would stay on the same wind angle and had much time for other things like navigation, cooking and sleeping. An auxiliary rudder needs to be about a third of the size of the boat’s main rudder to provide good results, which immediately restricts the type and size of craft for which auxiliary rudders are a realistic option (this assumes, of course, that the auxiliary rudder is not operating in the turbulent wake of a closely-mounted main rudder and always remains immersed even when the boat is heeled – it doesn’t take a genius to realise that rudder surface out of the water might as well not be there at all). Has it really escaped the notice of the experts that the only place to find symmetrical flows on a cat is in the centre and that fitting a vanegear close to the edge of one hull will expose it to the thoroughly confounding effects of the laminar flow that dominates in this location? Generally it will be necessary to reduce sail significantly to maintain satisfactory self-steering. Windy is a strong, efficient, and reliable shipmate. WINDPILOT OR HYDROVANE. Location critical, Simple shaft and drive unit with vane and rudder attachments. What happens when the boat heels? The overwhelming majority of platforms are designed to be used by the crew, who surely place considerably more load on this particular part of the boat than a servo-pendulum system (as decades of first-hand experience would seem to confirm). It is not such an easy decision! Some prospective bluewater sailors find themselves in two minds about a vanegear because they have potentially conflicting plans for the back of the boat. THE LIMIT OF AUXILIARY-RUDDER-SYSTEMS Our boat and two others had autopilot failures. Particularly, the downwind light air performance is remarkable! An autopilot is clueless about the direction of the wind (unless set up with a wind sensor). Hydrovane states that about 75% of the systems it has sold over the last ten years are installed in an off-centre position and there are many, many photos on its website showing units mounted well out to the side of the transom with the rudder visible at the water surface even with the boat stationary. It is no secret that Windpilot has manufactured all the main system types during my time at the helm, first in stainless steel and, since 1985, in aluminium. Presumably this has something to do with the common misapprehension about the loads transmitted to the hull by servo-pendulum systems. We now know a lot more about how to set her up and how to balance the sails. This marketing realignment had an astonishing impact, although we are so used to being marketed at all the time that the astonishment was probably quite short-lived. Although they do not move the wheel by much (typical wheels have 3 revolutions, stop to stop) it is enough to do the job. In particular its ability to steer safely on a dead run even when surfing is incredible, as is its light weather performance. A situation in which poor advice leads sailors to purchase a windvane steering system unsuitable for their purposes does nobody in the industry any favours. Even lighter than the Windpilot and somewhat cheaper is the Navik system marketed by Plastimo but I have heard reports of it being a … Adjustable Ratio Control – three power/steerage settings for rudder, Limited to no adjustability: Vane Axis is fixed at 20 degrees; no equivalent to Ratio Control. We had a poled out double headsail downwind rig and the hydrovane coped with the swell even in relatively low apparent wind (eg even when we were only doing 6 knots downwind in 13 knots of true wind speed), as well as in 25-30 knots and heavier swell. Movement of the vane rotates the in-water servo blade (also called paddle or oar). We really do love our below deck autopilot too.  It’s great for motoring and short hops, but that comfort changes when a few hours of usage becomes 24 X 7.  The realities of offshore are very different. I confess I was a little concerned about the auxiliary rudder system vs. a servo pendulum, but the power of the hydrovane has astonished me… it is now the best bit of kit on the boat. Rare indeed are boat owners who, once burnt, will give our technology a second go with a different windvane steering system. It is useful if the windvane can be rotated fore and aft in its clamp in response to changes in conditions. When choosing a windpilot make sure to choose one more than powerful enough for the boat. Hydrovane in action on Youtube: I’m without a doubt a happy customer. Thanks Scott. Another question is about the fixation on the stern, because even here several tipes are existing.

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